Melissa Fleming: Let’s talk first about the ambitious agenda of the UN GA Sustainability Week. From what I am reading, it will include five sector-specific conversations in the space of five days. What is the one common thread among these events – and what is the key message you would like to deliver?

Dennis Francis: Well, Melissa, thank you for the opportunity to discuss these issues with you.

In fact, you mentioned the common thread and the common thread is indeed, sustainability.

Sustainability is important because it has everything to do with the success of our existence on this planet. But in terms of the five sectors that you mentioned, these are key sectors of most economies, [and] if we get them right, we will in fact be achieving the goal of stimulating sustainable development.

And sustainability has to do with the gap between those who are wealthy and those who are perhaps disadvantaged, and that gap has been increasing.

Sustainable development ... when achieved will help to close that gap, bring more people into the system and ensure in negotiations, that no one is left behind.

Sustainable development ... when achieved will help to close that gap, bring more people into the system and ensure in negotiations, that no one is left behind

So, this is sustainability for all people everywhere on this planet. That is the agenda of the 2030 Sustainable Development Goals; to lift people up to give them hope, to empower them to achieve their individual goals through sustainability.

So, for example, we are discussing...sustainable debt ... on 15 April. Many countries in the Global South have got an overhang of large debts that must be repaid. But in repaying that debt, not much is left by way of resources to finance things like education, health, national security.

And so those countries find themselves trapped in a cycle of debt from which they cannot emerge. This creates a development crisis.

That is one of the reasons why [today] in the Global South ...approximately 860 million people are hungry; and why approximately the same number of those [listening to this interview in the Global South] are living in abject poverty.

We need to lift these people up to give them hope and the promise of a better standard of living and welfare so that they can look after their children and feel empowered, to dream and to achieve to work towards achieving whatever they want to achieve.

So, the key aspect of this would be to lift and remove that debt or make it more affordable. [Making it] more affordable is the critical component; reviewing the terms and conditions under which those loans are secured. The interest rates tend to be punitively high. And that, of course, creates a burden on these very vulnerable countries, [or those] we refer to as countries in special situations, the least developed countries, the landlocked developing countries, and the small island developing states.

And so, they are trapped because they have got to repay the debt. There is no question of not repaying the debt: No bank will lend you money unless you have a record of maintaining your scheduled debt payments.

So, they've got to repay the debt but in doing so, there isn't enough money left over to finance things like education and public health. And of course, that creates additional poverty.

Ms. Fleming: The second area of focus during Sustainability Week is infrastructure. Again, that is critical to build sustainable societies and transition to clean energy. Talk a little bit about what you expect from that focus area.

Mr. Francis: Infrastructure is crucial to development. We tend to take it for granted. But consider for example, the impact of [the cargo ship that crashed into and collapsed the Francis Scott Key Bridge near Baltimore Harbour in Maryland] not just on Baltimore, or on the state of Maryland, but on the entire economy of the United States. That port [handles] a lot of exports and imports into and out of the United States.

And so, the potential ripple effect will be across the American economy. That is why infrastructure – one bridge – can make an enormous difference.

Now, this is a huge, powerful economy so the effect might not be very dramatic. But if it was a small country dependent on a single port for all its trade, you would immediately see how cataclysmic that event would be. It would mean that the country will not be able to maintain its links with the global value chains.

And so, infrastructure is extremely important for sustainable development. It's a game changer.

Infrastructure connects people and it's important to connect people because that's how economies operate. Markets don't exist on their own. They're only markets if people can access them and exchange products or services of value for money.

Infrastructure connects people and it's important to connect people because that's how economies operate

And so, building sustainable infrastructure – infrastructure that has the capacity to withstand external shocks, such as hurricanes [tornadoes] and the stresses of extreme climate events – means that the economy bounces back much more quickly.

In the future when such events take place ... the cost of reconstruction will be significantly lower, and perhaps even marginal, because those structures can withstand extreme shocks and stresses.

And so that's why sustainable infrastructure is important.

We [received news just this morning of the earthquake] in Taiwan, where you saw an image of a building almost standing on its side. That's the sort of event where sustainable infrastructure becomes important.

Ms. Fleming: Absolutely. And we can't speak about climate shocks without speaking about transition to energy that is sustainable as well. Is there something you'd like to add about this, especially developing countries as they move to develop their economies and our push as the UN and as the President of the General Assembly, to have that energy source be sustainable [or] renewable energy?

Mr. Francis: Yes, and in fact, energy is one of the five sectors that will be featured during Sustainability Week.

As you know, we have an SDG 7 that deals specifically with the need for people to have access to clean, affordable energy.

And so that transition is extremely important for climate change reasons. We know that decarbonization is necessary. You notice I'm wearing a pin here that says ‘1.5 degrees’. This is the threshold [to limit warming] that the entire international community endorsed [the Paris climate conference] in 2015.

In fact, we ... have already started to see some places in the Pacific where sea level rise is threatening to inundate some of the low-lying atolls

This [goal was endorsed based on the consideration that] if global temperatures rise above the 1.5 threshold by 2050, the consequences would be catastrophic for vulnerable countries, including small island developing states and least developed countries.

In fact, we ... have already started to see some places in the Pacific where sea level rise is threatening to inundate some of the low-lying atolls. Therefore this 1.5-degree threshold is important.

Ms. Fleming: I understand also during this Sustainability Week, there is going to be a big focus on another aspect of infrastructure – sustainable transport. What are you going to talk about in this realm?

Mr. Francis: It’s everything because transport spans the gamut of the combustion engine, rail transport, maritime transport, air transport ... We're looking at the transport sector holistically because it is so critical for development.

Transport integrates markets, it moves people around the world.

Tourism is a sector we are looking at.

And so, in the transition to green energy, [electric vehicles are important in that equation]. But it's more about transportation sectors being available to people at affordable rates, which is why green energy is important because in the conversion to green energy that is required.

You will not have the downside of contamination of the atmosphere at levels that heretofore didn’t exist. Green energy will get rid of carbon that pollutes and contaminates the atmosphere and creates [unprecedented] climatic events.

So, sustainability therefore redounds to the benefit of the society as a whole; with less carbon in the atmosphere and fewer unprecedented climate events, we will have the ability to connect people and markets more efficiently at lower cost and therefore to drive down the cost of economic activity. This is good for the economy, and it’s good for people.

So, all these sectors you mentioned are linked by sustainability considerations. [And] let’s not forget – this is an extremely important point – when we're talking sustainable development, we're not just talking about sustainable development in our lifetime. We're talking about sustainable development that will fuel and support civilization 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 generations [in the future]. So long-term sustainability for life on this planet, as we understand it, becomes the goal.

Ms. Fleming: Your Sustainability Week is happening in the months leading up to the Summit of the Future, which will be happening [at UN Headquarters in New York]. So, we're thinking a lot about the future that you just described, and yet policies seem to be so short sighted.

You come from Trinidad and Tobago, perhaps an island nation at the frontlines of a lot of these issues. But can you imagine a future for Trinidad and Tobago ... if all these infrastructure factors were put in place? What would it look like?

Mr. Francis: It would be heaven. Quite literally. You know, every time I am there, and I drive my car around the city if you know the city of Port of Spain, you will know that it's rimmed by mountains. And there's nothing more stunningly beautiful [than to] watch the sunlight coming over the mountains. It would be the perfect place.

Now, there are other issues that we have as a country that would need to be dealt with. But if all those elements were in place, it would really be a good place to raise families and to raise children to give them the hope and the sense of security, that as human beings we deserve and can live dignified lives, in harmony with the environment and with all natural ecosystems, and yet be successful, professionally and in business.

We must live more responsibly. We have to optimize the use of those resources to ensure that there will be a supply for our great great great and even greater grandchildren

So, the message is really that there is no conflict between achieving economic success and achieving sustainability. Absolutely no conflict. It’s been done in some places. It requires commitment. And it requires vision and I think we have both. We have both.

So, I would expect, therefore, that all countries would make a deep dive and come and recommit to sustainability. That's why we decided to launch the sustainability campaign. Choose Sustainability.

Because if each of us made some basic changes to the way we do things. For example, many of us without thinking about it brush our teeth in the morning with the tap running. How about turning the tap off while you brush your teeth? You may save three or four gallons of water that the people in the southwest United States and in parts of California wish they had in their taps.

Water is a scarce resource. We need to rethink how we use resources. Because [they] are finite; there is no bottomless pit...That’s why we must live more responsibly. We have to optimize the use of those resources to ensure that there will be a supply for our great great great and even greater grandchildren.

This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.