“My objective is to make it clear that …we need cooperation, we need dialogue, and the present terrible geopolitical divides are not allowing it to happen. We need to change course,” Mr. Guterres said in a wide-ranging interview with UN News ahead of the General Assembly’s annual high-level week.

The UN chief is just back from a solidarity visit to flood-ravaged Pakistan, where he called repeatedly for fast – and serious – to not only end what he called “climate carnage” but to provide more support for the countries that are the most-impacted but have done very little to cause the phenomenon.

He told UN News: “We need to increase support to developing countries, not only in the reduction of emissions, but in building resilience, in building the sustainable infrastructure that is necessary for those countries to be able to [withstand] the impacts that are already devastating them. Most of the [climate] hotspots in the world [are] countries that did not contribute in a meaningful way to climate change.”

On the geopolitical front, the Secretary-General stressed the need for more dedicated and tactful diplomacy to effect demonstrable change on tough issues, including the global food shortages that have been sparked by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Using the UN-brokered Black Sea Grain Initiative as an example, the UN chief said: “This has demonstrated that discreet diplomacy is still able to achieve what megaphone diplomacy does not. This agreement would not have been possible if we had not worked persistently to get it done with discretion, avoiding the creation of situations in which inevitably both parties start to fight each other.”

The interview has been edited for clarity and length.

UN News: You’ve just returned from Pakistan where you visited areas hit by climate-related disaster. We are now alarmed at the drought and possibility of famine threatening Somalia.  What do you want to say to those who still deny that climate change is real – do we not ignore it at our peril?

António Guterres: Well, climate change is the defining issue of our time. And I’m extremely worried because with the war in Ukraine and several other events, climate change seems to have moved out of the priorities for many decision makers around the world, and this is suicide. We see emissions growing and we see fossil fuels becoming fashionable again [even though] we know that fossil fuels are the main [cause] for the progressive war against nature that we have been waging throughout our history.

It is absolutely essential to reduce emissions now. And unfortunately, while we should be able to reduce 45 per cent of the emissions [by] 2030, we are [instead facing] an increase in emissions [by] 14 per cent in 2030. So, we absolutely need to reverse this trend. We are heading into a catastrophic situation, and we have not much time to turn things around.

And at the same time, when we look at Pakistan, the level of destruction and the area flooded is three times the [size] of my country [Portugal]. We need to increase support to developing countries, not only in the reduction of emissions, but in building resilience, in building the sustainable infrastructure necessary for those countries to be able to [withstand] the impacts that are already devastating them. Most of the [climate] hotspots in the world are countries that did not contribute in a meaningful way to climate change.

UN Photo/Eskinder Debebe

An aerial view of the devastated landscape shot during Secretary-General António Guterres' solidarity visit to Pakistan where he witnessed the impact of the floods in the provinces of Sindh and Balochistan.

UN News: Every year, we usher in a new session of the General Assembly, often seen as a highlight of the year for the United Nations. What is your focus for this year’s GA, the first since the pandemic when we are meeting in person and with a major war in Europe drawing attention away from other global priorities?

António Guterres: My objective is to make it clear that the geopolitical divisions we are witnessing today are terrible. When the world is facing climate change, when the world is facing the possibility of other pandemics and COVID-19 has not yet been resolved, when the world is facing high levels of inequality between developed and developing countries, and huge inequality within countries. The world needs to really turn around on all these aspects. We need unity, we need cooperation, we need dialogue, and the present geopolitical divides are not allowing it to happen. We need to change course.

UN Photo/Eskinder Debebe

UN Secretary-General António Guterres visits Irpin in Ukraine.

UN News: The war in Ukraine has triggered one of the fastest and largest refugee crises in history. Kyiv [the Ukrainian capital] was bombed while you were visiting the country. How does this crisis differ from many others that you’ve seen as a High Commissioner and later as UN Secretary-General?

António Guterres: Most of the crises I have witnessed are in developing countries, relatively poor countries, and most of them are internal, even if there is an intervention [by] external powers. They became civil wars or [were] terrorist activities inside the country. Now we have a war between one superpower and Ukraine, which is also a modern country. And we are talking about levels of devastation that are not possible in situations where the nature of the armaments and the military capacity are completely different.

So, this is indeed once again a war between two states, created by the invasion of one state by another, with levels of armament and levels of force mobilization that are unparalleled in recent times. On the other hand, we are witnessing the fastest movement of refugees and displaced persons in recent history, with terrible humanitarian consequences.

UN Photo/Eskinder Debebe

Secretary-General António Guterres (right) visits Gubio Internally Displaced People’s Camp in Borno State, Nigeria.

UN News: You are hosting a major gathering to look at transforming education which has suffered in so many countries. You are keen to find responses to the economic slowdown that has seen a massive decline in progress with sustainable development. Amid major geopolitical tensions, what is your best-case scenario to make progress on these fronts?

António Guterres: If I had to choose one thing to improve the world situation [and] peace and security, that thing would be education. If I had to choose one thing to improve the capacity of understanding of climate change and the response to climate change, that would be education. When I look to anything that could reduce inequalities in the world, that thing would be education. But unfortunately, we are seeing, with the dramatic situation that we have in the world today – the war on climate, pandemics – we are seeing education budgets being reduced.

And so, the summit on [transforming] education is a moment to mobilize the whole international community to make countries understand that they need to invest much more in education, and to make developed countries understand that they need to amplify, together with international financial institutions, the support to developing countries for them to be able to invest in education.

We have launched the International Finance Facility for Education with Gordon Brown, and my hope is that this facility will be quickly funded by all donors in order to really make a difference for the most vulnerable populations in the world.

UN Photo/Mark Garten

Secretary-General António Guterres watches grain being loaded on the Kubrosliy ship in Odesa, Ukraine.

UN News: The Black Sea Grain Initiative has already seen almost three million tonnes of food from Ukraine leave for destinations across the world, helping alleviate the food crisis and saving lives. What are some of the essential components of this success story? How optimistic are you that this formula could be applied to other complicated situations?

António Guterres: This has demonstrated that discreet diplomacy is still able to achieve what megaphone diplomacy does not. This agreement would not have been possible if we had not worked persistently to get it done with discretion, avoiding the creation of situations in which inevitably both parties start to push back against each other. And this is, I would say, the recipe for many of the crises in the world. Let’s do everything possible to reestablish the importance of discreet diplomacy in crisis solution in today’s world.

UN News: Human rights are one of the pillars of the UN’s work. You have flagged the dangers posed by rising hate speech, xenophobia and populist nationalism.  Why is this happening, and what – on the other hand – gives you hope?

António Guterres: Well, these things have always existed, but they are now immensely amplified by social media and by all the [information technology] platforms that exist around the world.

On the other hand, when countries have difficulties in solving their problems, nationalism, xenophobia, making scapegoats, and [targeting] foreigners are unfortunately some of the things that are becoming more and more frequent. We need to understand that human rights must unite – unite communities, unite countries. Racism and xenophobia are two absolutely unacceptable manifestations of hatred that we need to... eliminate in our world.